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Sep 8th 2016 by Duo_Labs • 11 Questions • 4645 Points
I am a criminal justice lecturer at Texas State University and a former police chief. I was the police chief of San Marcos for 11 years, and I served with the Austin Police Department for 25 years before that.
Earlier this week, The Texas Tribune published Unholstered — a project where reporters gathered data on six years of police shootings in Texas' largest 36 cities. The reporters found 656 incidents. The investigation examined unarmed shootings, off-duty shootings and much more. As a former police chief, I was one of the experts The Texas Tribune interviewed to contextualize that data.
You can read the project here, and you can AMA about police shootings in Texas. Also joining are Texas Tribune reporters Jolie McCullough (joliesky) and Johnathan Silver (JohnathanSilverTrib). They can help answer your questions about their reporting and the data they gathered.
Man, I wish this AMA was getting more traction. You are giving some well thought out answers. It's often hit or miss around here. Depending on times, what other AMA's are going on simultaneously, etc. So don't take it personally lol. There were some good questions at least.
But I would like to ask 1 more question if that is okay. In your 36 years in law enforcement, was there a single experience that was your most rewarding? Maybe one particular day or event that impacted you the most? Also, what was the biggest change in law enforcement practices over your career? I imagine you witnessed great changes in crime scene forensics in your time?
Long war story.
I once got a call of a man passed out in a movie theater. It was about 2:30 a.m. Apparently, he had gone to see a movie and passed out drunk, falling onto the floor between the seats. The crew cleaning the theater found him and called the police.
When I woke him up, he was so drunk that he could not tell me where he was, how he got there, or how he was planning to get home. Naturally, I arrested him for public intoxication.
He plead not guilty to the charge, and we had a trial. The judge found him not guilty because she felt that, since he had been sleeping for about four or five hours, he must not have been that drunk.
About two years later, I ran into the man again at a disturbance call. He was not part of the disturbance. A lady in his apartment complex ran to his apartment when her husband was threatening her. He let her in and called the police.
When I had finished the call and was preparing to leave, he asked if I remembered him, because I had not said anything about our previous encounter. I replied that I did remember him, but that had nothing to do with why I was there so there was no reason to bring it up.
That's when he said, "Well, I want to tell you something."
Immediately I started thinking he was going to fuss about my taking him to jail when he was not guilty of being drunk. Instead, he started explaining that he was an alcoholic, and that he never realized it until he awoke in jail and had no idea why he was there or what he had done. He went on to explain that his wife and family had been threatening to disown him over his drinking, and his boss was threatening to fire him. He said that was their problem, not his.
When he awoke in jail, he decided he needed help, and he joined AA as soon as he got out. He said things were going much better for him now. He had just gotten a promotion and raise at work, his family was back in his corner, and he and his wife had recently welcomed a baby daughter (they let me hold her).
He told me I had probably saved his life, and wanted to apologize to me and thank me for what I had done for him. Going to jail was what it took to convince him to turn his life around.
Many times in police work we see our failures over and over again. We get calls on them all of the time. We rarely get to see our successes, because they stay out of trouble. We seldom realize how much good we actually contribute, because we get called to deal with failures, not to celebrate successes. Luck of the draw is the only reason I got to hear his story. His story is why we do what we do.
The greatest advance, DNA. What an incredible tool when it is available. While I was Chief, my detectives solved a 35-year-old-murder because of DNA evidence.
When you're on public WiFi do you have access to all the data going through? Is it illegal to compromise/fiddle with the WiFi network?
Is there anything that can be done currently to ease tension between the police in Texas and the general public (and vice versa)?
We actually did a quick video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn8wA6iPbkg
Open and honest conversations are critical to resolving tensions. Relationships, whether they are between family members or are between the police and public need open honest communication to survive critical times.
So often the public begins to complain long before they even know what happened. Part of the reason for that is the police departments' reluctance to release information.
There is no substitute for beginning that conversation right away after a critical incident. There will always be questions unanswered early in an investigation because there has not been sufficient time to get all of the answers, yet. Nevertheless, the sooner we can begin a conversation based on the facts instead of supposition or suspicion, the better off we will all be.
This is not going to be an immediate fix. It takes time to build that trust level once it is lost.
What kind of pressures do the police department higher ups have when unarmed shootings occur? Are they accountable to city officials or does it depend on how much attention is received perhaps?
Duo's always hiring: https://duo.com/about/careers#jobs There are a few appsec roles open now
There is pressure whenever there is a police shooting, armed or not. This is the most drastic measure a government can take -- taking the life of a citizen. There should always be pressure to explain and justify it. It is equally important, however, for government officials and the public to listen to the answers.
As I have often told my students, "Question authority, but have the grace to listen when it answers."
One thing that is important to remember, is that unarmed does not mean the person is not a threat. The third most frequently used murder weapon in the United States is a person's hands and feet. It might be more difficult to explain a fear of death or serious bodily injury from someone without a weapon, but they can still be deadly. The person's being unarmed does not automatically mean deadly force is inappropriate.
In each of your opinions, what was the most significant/surprising thing you learned in compiling this report?
I started researching officer-involved shooting fatalities about two years ago. I limited my research to fatalities because my research interest is arrest-related deaths, which includes deaths not related to the use of firearms. I can say that what the authors of this report found jibes with what I found in my research. Record keeping, not only in Texas but across the US, is terrible. The federal systems commonly used to track officer-involved shooting fatalities are only capturing about half of the fatalities. This lack of reliable information makes it very difficult for government officials and academics alike to engage in evidence-based discussions about the problems.
What were the reactions or comments that you got from former colleagues at San Marcos or the Austin Police Department after the project came out?
I have heard from my peers at the University, but I have heard nothing from former police colleagues. I do not know whether they have seen the report, or they just have nothing to say.
I can tell you that anyone who has ever worked with me knows my attitude about use of force. There is a legal side to every use of force, no matter how great or minor it is, but there is also a moral and ethical side. It is equally important to know what one can do, and what one should do. There is no separating one from the other.
It has come to light that one of the police officers killed in Dallas had neo-Nazi/white supremacist tattoos and affiliations. How is that a member of a police force, surrounded by people supposedly trained to spot criminals could work next to someone with these kind of beliefs? The LEO in Philadelphia with a Nazi tattoo is another example. How much of a problem is white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement?
The unfortunate truth is that there are police officers with biases. We do the best we can to weed them out before we hire them, but the hiring practice is not always fail-proof. As the Chief, I once fired one of my new rookie officers for voicing his racist attitudes during his training period. Somehow, that did not come out in his background investigation.
In many agencies, especially those with Civil Service protection, unless an officer violates a law or an established department policy, you cannot simply fire them. Their employment is protected by law.
Having a tattoo is expression that is protected under the free speech clause of the First Amendment. If the department had a policy that said the tattoo must remain covered while in uniform, and the officer kept it covered, there is no policy violation and he cannot be fired simply for having the tattoo.
Having the belief and acting upon it are different things. If there was evidence that the officer was treating people unfairly because of their race, he would be subject to discipline and eventually to dismissal. If there was not evidence of that, there is nothing the department can do about it as a matter of law. The First Amendment protects the police officer, too.
What is your opinion on the CDC not being allowed to conduct research on gun violence?
I do not know what restrictions the CDC has on such research, so I cannot really address it specifically. But this is a matter of such governmental and public importance, I cannot see why we would not research it as thoroughly as possible.